112474-awful-customer-support
Content ---- ---- Well, if there is no in game method available to restore a guild, then it isn't an easy fix is it? It's a fix that would require jumping into their way-back machine, producing code that would allow this sort of thing and implementing it before you delted your own guild. I would say that the incompetence lies in the fact that you deleted your guild. Support didn't do anything but answer your inquiry in a timely manner and provide the support that the game physically allows. | |} ---- So in your opinion the fact that everything jumped around when one person logged off is fine, along with the fact that there is no confirmation for guild deletion? Guild deletion is a pretty big decision and definitely deserves some sort of confirmation before proceeding. | |} ---- This. The things people will defend when it comes to terrible UI or game design... just amazing. :huh: | |} ---- Well of course that's not acceptable, but you tell me... What does that have to do with "Customer Service". Customer service is just the poor a-hole that has to tell them that they can't fix a development issue. | |} ---- Oh if that was your main point I agree. The thread title and CS hate really doesn't address the core of the problem, which is bad design. -_- | |} ---- Customer service means that they have to service the customer as best as they can. In this particular case it would be instead of replying with "post on forums with a suggestion" I would expect something along the lines of "We currently have no fix for this situation, however we will investigate this further and try to work on a possible solution". Basically instead of saying "you're SOL, sorry" they are the ones who have to take initiative and try to work on a solution and helping out their customer. Edit: Also, I'm not an expert on this, but aren't there some sort of back up databases or something? | |} ---- But that's what they actually posted minus the "try to work on a solution" part. Which is redundant, because they're just CS. They can only click the buttons in the menus that Carbine gave them to work with. They can't "work on solutions" past that. Of course complaints like these are most likely escalated to dev staff, but CS at that point has done literally all they can. The "post on the forums" is just the only advice that they can give to customers. It is, by the way, not the worst of advice, as devs have visited threads like this many times in the past to discuss things. | |} ---- My thoughts exactly, which is why I'm frustrated. This sort of issue can't be all that hard to address. If nothing else, I hope that they at least add a confirmation window to the guild disband option. It's absolutely ridiculous. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Clearly you have no idea how hard this is. It's not as simple as /restore and done. In fact no one but someone at Carbine would have any idea how easy or hard this is, because only they have access to the DB itself, and can see what would be required to restore the missing data, and not break anything in the process. That said, your rant about CS is pointing at the wrong people, CS can only do what ever Carbine gives them the tools to do. It's not like any of them are DB Admin's or coders or anything else. Perhaps someone from Carbine will see this and find a way to restore your guild, I'd like to see that myself. If there's no confirmation request then that is truly bad UI design. Regardless of where the button is, there should be a confirmation prompt, even something that has you type in a name, same as when you delete a character. | |} ---- ---- Normally I'd agree, but... If it's easy to miss click on the delete guild button, and if there's no confirmation prompt when you click on it. Then yeah that is Carbines fault. I haven't created let alone deleted a guild, so I don't know what the process is like, but I find it a bit shocking if it's that easy considering what you have to do to delete a character. Deleting a guild should require the same steps as a character really. | |} ---- I created a guild just to test this. The Disband button has a confirmation prompt when you click it. I don't know, maybe it bugged out on him or he wasn't paying attention to what button he actually clicked. | |} ---- I work in IT and I can tell you that depending on the way the button is set up, it's not at all uncommon for people to click yes without even stopping to read the prompt. That's why you see prompts that require you to type something in, even then people will type in the required word without thinking... I still think it would be a good idea for Carbine to come up with some sort of method to restore a deleted guild, if possible. Although I'm not sure if any other MMO does this, it may be a lot more difficult then most people think. I'm fairly sure there's more to it then simply reinserting the rows into the DB again, likely because the guild system ties into the customer system so when you delete a guild every character is updated, and each one of those would have to be changed as well. But in this case it's more likely the OP clicked yes without realizing it, which makes the whole thing a lot less Carbines fault. beattlebilly, curious... When you deleted the guild, was it something that seemed like it would be easy to miss click, when you're trying to remove a member? | |} ---- ---- ---- Good to know! This will definitely be needed in the future as it is now. In WoW, there have been many incidences where guilds have been hacked and disbanded. Blizzard has a much needed ability to restore guilds and reputation -- though with limits, e.g. guild master must re-add players and former guild members must not join a different guild for rep restoration. Guild restoration will be an equally imperative Carbine-side admin tool for WildStar. | |} ---- To me, it didn't, but I'll let others judge for themselves, took a SS: ETA: and apparently if you close the window without clicking Yes or No, the confirmation dialog will still be there when you reopen the window :P | |} ---- Think that's the real root of the problem though. The way customer-service is handled is pretty much straight up completely wrong. Even if the idea was for a separate department, fine, as long as it's got connections and means of escalating issues and reasonably moving/forwarding along issues to where they need to go, pretty much acting as a switchboard. In this case though, as has been seen since launch, it's completely outsourced, with no real ability to fix the major problems, and whatever they deem "worthy of passing on" might get passed on, while several issues have ended up in the circular-file... which is a decent part of what's bleeding... erm, allow me to correct that, hemorrhaging subscriptions, due to unresolved and poorly-handled issues. This is the digital-form of buying a product, having a massive issue with it, and when you try to call the manufacturer, you're instead rerouted to an operator that barely understands you, that you can barely understand, out in the middle of anybody-knows-where, to press a couple buttons, answer some unrelated questions, then get a, "oh, we're sorry to hear that happened... if this is an actual real/legit concern... please feel free to take it back to the store, since there's nothing that we can really do about it where we're at". I mean, even by word definition... "customer" support is all fine and dandy... can players expect an actual, formal, "tech" support somewhere in the near future, or ever even? I mean seriously... we're customers/clients/subscribers of Carbine, perhaps even NCSoft... but last I checked, we're not customers/clients of Zendesk, we haven't done any business with Zendesk, Zendesk hasn't handled any financial transactions on our behalf, Zendesk aren't the ones that maintain our accounts, security, and server-data -- so why exactly are they the ones receiving our issues in the first place again!? :blink: :ph34r: EDIT: This is pretty much like when Guild-Leader Genesis-Keys were being reset, and the response people were getting is, "oops, we can't fix it, but feel free to start a new character, level it all over again, and pray it doesn't happen a second time". The "submit ticket" option, instead of giving a form, should just show the classic troll-face meme and read, "Sorry bro, you're SOL, just completely, but have a nice day anyways, 'cuz we're CS and we say so". EDIT2: Perhaps it should also be clarified, by Carbine directly, that if the only way problems/issues can be actually fixed and/or appropriately dealt with is by means of forums posts, that actual issues that require Carbine staff/admins should instead be posted in a sub-thread similar to "Bug Report", in a manner that's posted to be a submission for help... that way people don't even have to mess with CS... as it stands, CS is the equivalent of a help-hotline back in the day... someone to give a couple ideas, tips, and maybe tell you where else to look. Other thing to keep in mind is the possible chance they might have been doing some sort of double-click motion to remove inactive players (don't really admin any guild or anything myself, so not sure how that function works), and if the window shifted the right way, or with the right GUI/interface resolution/placement, user might have clicked Disband first, where the confirm may have popped up directly over Disband, and/or where they were clicking, and on the second click (double-click motion), taken the second click as the confirmation perhaps. :huh: | |} ---- ---- Thanks Beattle! | |} ---- Looking at the screenshot a few posts above... Guild Roster and Disband button are available from the same screen... my guess is they were clicking on a name near the bottom of the list (or at least the visible area before the list would scroll), and the whole window -- as in not just the list itself -- actually shifted upwards... more of a GUI hiccup... if they were using some sort of double-click motion to remove players, or even speed-clicking I suppose of any fashion (like say perhaps quick right click, fast double-click, follow up click -- after doing something enough times, it can become "robotic", and there have been a lot of guilds having to remove a lot of inactive players), could have clicked "disband" and "confirm" in one quick shot. (Looking again at screenshot, from the very bottom of the list-box, there's what -- maybe a couple of centimeters at best between the bottom of the box and the actual disband button? Especially considering the list box does stretch out above/past the disband button, so if a person were say clicking in the say horizontal coordinate/column as the button, and the window shifts, their cursor could quite easily end up over the button.) Even though the possibility of booting the guild-leader has merit... the idea of anybody below the guild-leader, actually being able to boot the leader would be kind of hilarious (unless perhaps they've been inactive for x-amount of days that is)... at least as far as coding/interface go, since that shouldn't typically be possible, hehe. I've seen some windows shift... especially when using the "moveable frames" addon... not so much because of the addon, but every so often the WS client likes to hiccup and force things back to where they were by default (has been a huge problem during most of the content-drops and major-patches... default-resetting UI), or oddly place the mount menu/button somewhere right in the bottom-middle of the screen on top of other UI bits, or something else strange... can't say I've seen Moveable Frames have much guild-window customization, of course, haven't tinkered with guild stuff really, so it could. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Good for you? If it's a legit bug that sucks, but that's a bug, and should be posted in the 'bugs' sub-forum, not general. This was presented as a consequence of the game working as intended; which it's been demonstrated here is not the case. I certainly empathise with you if you indeed suffered from a bug that caused the guild disband function to operate outside it's intended parameters. But that's not a CS problem, it's a dev problem, and should have been placed in the proper location with the proper communication rather than hating on CS because they can't fix what is either a bug / dev problem or a PBKAC pro em. EDIT: People keep mentioning GM's... When did we get them? Edited September 7, 2014 by Nazryn | |} ---- It shouldn't be that hard to notice that it's guild masters what he mentioned. | |} ---- Oh, sorry. He acted as if GM's were in a position to validate his claim. I assumed he meant Game Masters. If he indeed meant Guild Leaders, I would suggest that those 2 should put in /bug tickets along with OP. as an aside, when did Guild Leaders become Guild Masters? GM has always been Game Masters, since before D&D .... I'm old and reject what you young'uns are doing! :D | |} ----